K Shea wrote:
> Hmmm, this sounds a little like the process I have to go through to build the TBS drivers.
Does it? You only have to do it once & every so often you update when you need to or when a major flaw has been fixed. It's a one time only thing when you feel like doing it with kernel upgrades you pretty much have to build the drivers or you get no cards.
>
> Mark Clarkstone wrote:
> > Why not just build your own debian package? granted it takes a bit longer that just doing apt-get update/upgrade but at least you have builds and backup configs you can fall back on if something breaks.
>
> So let's say I followed the instructions and everything stopped working - how would I get the current version of TVHeadEnd back (assuming I made a backup of the TVHeadEnd config as you suggested in your previous message)?
So what you're saying here is you don't know how to remove software from your system? If you've installed it via dpkg you're still able to remove it using 'sudo apt-get remove tvheadend' that usually does the trick, the only thing it won't do is remove your config you can easily do that using 'sudo rm -r /home/hts/.hts'.
> Specifically what I mean is, how would I return to using 3.9? I get that Imost likely wouldn't need to, but my big fear all along has been actually making things worse than they already are.
After removing your self built deb and deleted your config, you simply install tvheadend again using 'sudo apt-get install tvheadend' (IIRC it'll use the one from the repos) once it's installed stop tvheadend 'sudo service tvheadend stop' then place folder contained within your backup into /home/hts/.hts and start it again using 'sudo service tvheadend start'. Provided you've extracted and the permissions are correct you shouldn't have any issues.
>
> > git clone
https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend.git build/tvheadend/master (You can add --branch "release/4.0" to this to use stable 4.0.x releases).
>
> Actually I kind of wanted to use the 4.1 "unstable" release - don't want to run a nightly because too much potential for breakage, but would like to start out with the newest version, and from what I understand the "unstable" version is mis-named because it's actually a lot more stable than the "stable" versions of many other projects. Honestly the version naming system in TVHeadEnd confuses me no end. For example if I look at https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend/releases it looks like the 4.1 branch is actually OLDER than the 4.0.7 branch, which makes no sense at all. In the repository (that doesn't work with Debian Wheezy) there are FOUR separate packages available, two in the "master" branch and two in the "stable" branch, Since I don't want a nightly I was going to use the "Master branch - 'unstable' release" which I had assumed would get me 4.1, but now I'm wondering if there is some difference between the 4.0.x releases and the 4.1 release, and which one I really want.
The 4.1.x is the development version and should not really be used at all unless you want unexpected crashes and bugs. The releases 4.0.x are meant to be the most stable as they won't have any of the WIP code that goes into 4.1.x the only updates that do make it into 4.0.x are backported from 4.1 these are usually bug fixes and anything that causes major problems.
* Tvheadend - Master branch - nightly builds = Builds the master branch from github (
https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend/tree/master) nightly.
* Tvheadend - Master branch - 'unstable' releases = Builds the master branch once a week.
* Tvheadend - Stable branch - nightly builds = Builds using the latest changes from the 'release/4.0' branch
https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend/tree/release/4.0 nightly.
* Tvheadend - Stable branch - official releases = Builds stable once a week.
>
> > AUTOBUILD_CONFIGURE_EXTRA=--enable-libffmpeg_static ./Autobuild.sh if you want transcoding
>
> So just to be crystal clear, you mean that instead of using just
>
> ./Autobuild.sh
>
> I would use
>
> AUTOBUILD_CONFIGURE_EXTRA=--enable-libffmpeg_static ./Autobuild.sh
>
> to enable transcoding? Now, my question would be, is transcoding included in the pre-built versions from the repositories? And do I even need it?
Yes it is included in the pre-built version, and no you don't have to use it but some people do.
> Normally, when I record a program from the satellite, it saves it as a .ts file, and Kodi plays that just fine. While I do have ffmpeg installed on the system in order to handle a couple of "special case" channels with funky audio (they send the 5.1 audio channels in discrete streams,
> if you are curious the instructions I found for doing that are at
https://freetoairamerica.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/fixing-the-audio-on-live-tv-from-a-certain-network-which-shall-remain-nameless/), that is essentially done outside of TVHeadEnd as I understand it, and I actually don't think there would be any way to set TVHeadEnd to do that internally even if it did have transcoding support. The only thing I use to view live and recorded programs is Kodi, which handles the .ts streams just fine. But in any case I
think I'd like to emulate the options used to create the repository builds as closely as possible, if I were going this route.
>
> > The build you're using 3.9 really wasn't meant for general use it has quite a few bugs that have been fixed this is why you'll keep being told to upgrade, I'm not even sure why you're still using it.
>
> Because the 3.4 branch did not support satellite TV all that well and in particular I would not have been able to do the audio fix mentioned above in the 3.4 branch (according to the article I referenced, that requires version 3.9.2100 or later, though I have no idea why that requirement exists).
I think that may have been around the time piping was added.
> And at the time I saw nothing anywhere to suggest that 3.9 wasn't intended for general use, in fact I think someone recommended I upgrade to it to resolve some issues I'd had previously,
Unless it's listed as a new releases on tvheadend.org then it isn't for general use, but if you've been told upgrading to the unstable (at the time) would fix your issues then that's fair enough.
> though my memory isn't good enough to remember what those issues were. And of course the reason I never upgraded beyond that was because no additional builds were ever offered for Debian Wheezy in the repository.
This was around about the time when a small version number change took place to the file names that caused the scripts which builds and places the packages in the repository (apt.tvheadend.org) broke and it hasn't been fixed since.
>
> > Again really if you wanted less of the hassle it would have been easier to have stuck to 3.4.28 and when 4.0.x got released upgraded to that.
>
> But on Debian Wheezy I would not have had that option anyway.
True and this is an issue no one seems to be interested in fixing as Wheezy is pretty much EOL. And unless the old build scripts get fixed it won't be changing any time soon.
>
> > If my experience I've found Debian to be a lot less bothersome than Ubuntu
>
> That was why we went with it in the first place. Because you have to rebuild the TBS drivers after each kernel update, I figured Debian would have a lot fewer of such updates than Ubuntu, and over time that has proven to be the case.
> But if you look at all the questions and uncertainty I have raised just in this post, you might understand that
I prefer therelative safety of installing from a repository.
> Normally that doesn't ask me to make any decisions about anything, it just goes ahead and installs. And believe me, even a question like "do I want transcoding support or not" is something I really don't want to deal with, because I don't know if I need it, and I don't know whether if I don't need it and I install it anyway, will that break something else or have some negative effect on my system?
I believe some of the builds in the old repo do have transcoding built in anyway, you +don't+ have to use and not using it won't have any affect on your system in any way.
> That's also why having so many choices in the repositories bothers me; I would be much happier if there were just a "normal" version for people like me, and a "nightly" version for all the people who want to be beta testers. Because when I have too many options like that, and particularly when the differences aren't clearly explained, I always wind up wondering if I made the right decision.
Choice is good! If you're unsure you should just stick to the stable branch..
>
> > Sorry I meant set the network to the adapter & you're done :p
>
> Ah, okay, I think I understand now. The network(s) don't get automatically connected to the adapter(s) after the upgrade so you have to set those manually.
>
> Anyway thanks for explaining all that, if nothing else it was quite educational. Probably won't do anything until later this week, so I am still weighing the options.
>
> EDIT: After some consideration, I think the main thing that tips the scales for me is that Debian Wheezy only has “security support” until February 2016, and if I were to update to Debian Jessie, that has “security support” until May 2018. Whereas Ubuntu Server 14.04 LTS will have full support until April, 2019. So in the end I think I would be better off to try changing out the hard drive, installing Ubuntu Server 14.04 LTS and TVHeadEnd 4.1 (unless there is some reason I should stay in the 4.0 branch).
Stick with the stable branch unless you want unexpected breakages! I'll repeat.. "DON'T USE UNSTABLE UNLESS YOU WANT BREAKAGES" and in Japanese "Anata ga hason o shiyō suru baai ni kagiri, UNSTABLE shiyō shinaide kudasai"
> and copying over my configuration using tar as you suggested. Then if it has any problems I can restore the original drive, but if copying the configuration works it won't take much longer than trying to upgrade TVHeadEnd on the existing system. This not only feels like the safest approach to me, but also the one that will (hopefully) cause me the least amount of grief in the future.
I hope I've helped somewhat..
