MOI DVB-S2 Streaming Box

James Fry

Anyone know about this device?

http://www.tbsdtv.com/launch/moi-dvb-s2-streaming-box.html http://www.tbsdtv.com/launch/moi-tv-streaming-box-tech-specifications.html

http://www.tbsdtv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=8183

Found it whilst browsing for DVB-t2 devices...

This is S2 but from 3rd link seems they may make a T2 version in future...

Looks like it may have TVheadend built in (although the info is vague so I could be wrong).
Would be a nice little unit if its running TVH!

Niklas Engberg

i just got my tvheadend server up , but will order one next week

ProfYaffle

If it's running embedded tvheadend, would you get PVR functions unless it can write to an external drive? So no timeshift either by the same logic. Unless you feed it into another tvheadend instance as an IP stream...? That would explain the comment"Compatible with all Linux software, dvblast, tvheadend as well as other software running on both server and client".

I saw it when it was announced, but don't understand enough about it yet to know if it complements my existing setup or actually replaces part of it. So, Niklas - let us know what it looks like when it arrives!

EDIT

Yes, looking again at those links, it looks like it just delivers an IP stream over "HTTP,RTSP,RTP". So I presume you'd configure tvheadend on another system to see this as an IPTV source...?

EDIT 2

No, just confused now - http://www.ebraincity.com/ebraincity/products/MOI-DVB%252dS2-Streaming-Box.html:

"More powerful – Linux system with TVHeadend,DVBlast,mumuDVB,szap,scan pre-installed."

Niklas Engberg

Will report as soon as it arrived...some pictures on hw and first impression.

Br Niklas

James Fry

Prof Yaffle wrote:

> If it's running embedded tvheadend, would you get PVR functions unless it can write to an external drive? So no timeshift either by the same logic.

I'm guessing it can write to connected USB and/or Samba/NFS mounts.
The pic of it here (http://www.tbsdtv.com/launch/images/zt_s_4.jpg) shows a host USB port so fingers crossed this is the case.
(and also that they release a DVB-T2 version)

noggin

This looks interesting - not a million miles away from NessieDVB.: http://www.nessiedvb.com/en/specifications.html

I'm trying to do something similar with an AMLogic-based DVB-S2 STB designed to run Android. Box similar to this : http://dvbdroid.info This box also has a full HDMI and Composite TV output system - and the chipset runs XBMC with hardware acceleration (one of the few chipsets used in these Android boxes with decent dev support)

David Hewings

Looks great to me as a dedicated backend.

I currently have a single seat setup, and have been looking for a silent backend.

Only real limitation for me is not being able to add additional tuners, as I currently use tbs pci-e tuners.

In 2 minds whether this is the right option for me. May have to look at building a dedicated thin backend with support for multiple pci-e (although that is not really that easy)

James Fry

Maybe it would be possible to add additional USB tuners via the USB socket on the device?
Seems feasible if the hardware is up to it as the kernel will surely have support for their own hardware.
Alternatively maybe it would be possible to run two backends - not sure if the f/e (xbmc?) could handle this though.

Maybe some tweaks to TVH could enable multiple backends to communicate to share config etc?

I just have fingers crossed that a DVB-T2 version will materialise...

noggin

I think the main limitation for extra tuners could well be 100Mbs Ethernet, particularly if you want to stream more than one channel from the same transponder?

Be interesting to see how GPL-friendly and Open Source it is. Good that it has an RS232 port - presumably for uBoot/Console access? USB could be useful for additional tuners or card reader?

Adam Sutton

Just to throw in my 2 pence... for those that don't know most of the TVH devs (myself included) have been sent MOI samples. They look like pretty nifty boxes, unfortunately I've killed mine. But I wouldn't hold that against TBS, I have a habit of doing this!

However I can provide some insight based on my usage, you can also ask in #hts as you'll find a few people in there that have used them.

1. It's not something I'd personally purchase (doesn't suit my requirements) however its a nice enough bit of kit for a standalone streaming server.
2. Currently the kernel's shipped on our samples are lacking quite a few useful features, including:
- no NFS client/server support (though we've been promised this at some point).
- no USB tuner support
NOTE: the kernel sources will be made available pre-release, TBS are still tidying things up though. So that should mean adding USB tuners will be possible.
3. In reality the 100Mb is not that limiting, unless you were hoping to stream entire multiplexes.
4. I've heard mention that TBS do want to do variants using other DVB input types, though I've not pressed them on it.
5. RS232 does indeed provide uboot/console access.
6. The software build does need some work in my opinion, I don't like a few things about the way they've packaged TVH nor how they've setup the OS.
7. In terms of performance it seems pretty good, but anyone expecting to do software descrambling of HD channels may have to find an alternative. One dev tried this and found it was ok for some HD channels, but higher bit rate ones were a real struggle.

8. With regard to open source, they are complying with all requirements as far as I can tell. The only thing we've yet to see are the kernel sources, but I'm pretty sure they will be forthcoming. However don't expect completely open DVB drivers, I imagine they will be same as standard TBS drivers. Part of it at least will be binary firmware blob.

If I get some time, and ideally if I can get another box (or fix mine) I will probably try and post a short article about the box.

Adam

James Fry

Seems promising for my usage - assuming they release a DVB-T2 version :)
I currently have a raspberry Pi (raspbmc pre release) which I am using solely for TVH (xbmc GUI is disabled).
It sits under my stairs (where there is wired network and aerial booster) and is on 24/7, but I'd love to free up the pi for other things - especially since there is no compatible DVB-t2 decoder (due to Pi's USB driver lacking isoc e/p support the pctv 290e does not work well)

noggin

Thanks Adam

Very encouraging re: Kernel sources and Open Source compliance. Pity that the processing power doesn't seem to be there for descrambling of HD - that's a requirement for many people. (Some of the SoCs aimed at STBs - and it looks like the SoC in the MOI is as it appears to have transport stream interfacing - have some acceleration for descrambling I believe. I wonder if this is being used? Looking at the data sheet for the SoC :

Hardware Crypto Accelerator − Securely integrated DES/ TDES, AES, SHA-1, PRNG and PKA

Is any of that likely to be useful for accelerating descrambling? Doesn't the DVB CSA use AES encryption? If so - do you think the hardware crypto accelerator could be useful?

Looking at the pictures it appears that the device has two boards - a CPU board and a DVB-Tuner board - so that is encouraging for potential future DVB-T/T2, DVB-C etc. releases.

Also interesting that the SoC used has an on-board MFC (which is a hardware acclerator for MPEG2, H264 and VC-1) and HDMI support - though this is presumably unused and not available. It's a similar category of chip as those shipping in lots of the Android TV boxes and sticks. (The Odroid series are based on a newer A9 Quad core model)

Adam Sutton

I believe (from memory, I did open it up as soon as I got it ;) ) that it's actually a 3 board system. 1 for DVB tuners, 1 for SOC and 1 for power conversion. The tuners are also connected via USB, so I imagine there are definitely plans to create variants with both DVB-T and DVB-C tuner boards.

The problem is that you won't get TBS doing the acceleration (for obvious reasons) so it needs someone in the community to do optimisations to something like dvbcsa.

I think its a bit of a shame myself they didn't include HDMI output, would have been a nice standalone media system. But clearly that's not the market they're targetting.

Adam

noggin

Looks like some work has been done on integrating Samsung crypto hardware into the Linux kernel - though for a different model of SoC. http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.samsung-soc/1679 Out of my league in coding terms unfortunately.

Martin Jones

Well I took the plunge and ordered one but at the moment am playing with the Tevii S660 and Raspberry pi/tvheadend.

I have to say that once I got my head around configuring it, my current 660/pi combo works really well with tvh and I can watch via xbmc. A few issues with BBC HD breaking up a bit but I think that may be processing related and I will do a few tweaks if I get round to it before the MOI turns up.

What would be really good would be if I could run Mythbackend on the MOI (without wanting to offend anyone on here), or be able to get tvheadend to provide the ability for Mythtv to read/control a la HDHomerun. That would be my ideal as I could leave the sat feed/tvheadend at its entry point in the house and just connect to my current mythtv setup via ethernet. Could also do likewise for DVB-T sticks etc then too :-). I do make a lot of use of Mythtv's scheduler and keyword searching facility and never really watch much live tv. I have also had a lot more success in tuning the S660 with tvheadend than MythTV.

Martin

Ben G

Has anyone got any further with this new box and descrambling? Am a bit of a noob to this but this box looks like it could be ideal for my situation if the descrambling works. The link Stephen posted above to the SoC code looks interesting but the code is old and doesn't look like it works (plus Stephen points out the MOI has a different module).

I have no aerial or satellite connection in my flat (totally isolated!) and no option to lay a cable. However the main part of the building has a satellite dish (with two available transponders) which I could connect the MOI to. I figure if I connect the MOI to a wireless bridge and can get a reasonably stable wireless-N connection with at least 30Mbps back to my router then I could watch two channels using TvHeadend (RTSP). Correct me if I am way off. However descrambling would be the issue. Reading about MumuDVB sending the scrambled channels as pass through to a PC frontend sounds like an alternative but I imagine MumuDVB sending each channel instance (as in any potential channel I wish to watch) on a multicast IP to the router (in this case over wireless) would be a non-starter. MumuDVB not yet supporting RTSP. Thanks in advance for any inputs to my dilemma. Currently btw am limited to watching UK freeview over the net using the CatchupTV service and would like to get a larger range of channels (plus experience less jitter/cut-off).

Adam Sutton

I believe the current state is that descrambling higher bit rate HD is too much for the board. It can cope with SD ok (not sure of how many streams) and some lower bit rate HD (but almost certainly no more than 1 stream). And I'm not really up to speed on any work to optimise this code (libdvbcsa).

I also considered setting something up on the box to stream the raw data to my main TVH server, but I got sidetracked and have subsequently repurposed the spare 2 feeds for a new quad tuner in my main box.

Adam

Adam Sutton

I'd probably also add, that if you already have a box that you might put TVH on, then I'd suggest just buying a PCI(e) or USB tuner for that box. Probably much simpler.

I think the MOI has its uses, but atm for me its not really that useful as a simple mini-ITX based PC with PCIe/USB tuners is more than good enough to meet my needs. I was just planning to use my MOI as a dev system.

Adam

Martin Jones

Currently am using mine with tvheadend to stream freeview back to XBMC via my GB Ethernet network for freesat. Works just fine with all the fta HD channels so far. Have also connected to my other xbmc box upstairs via 2.4Ghz Wireless N (with a repeater/bridge so half the avail bandwidth) and BBC HD was fine (not tried any others).

Next is to try MuMuDVB and set it up as a network recorder in mythtv when I have a bit of spare time.

Cant comment on encrypted channel use as I have no interest in them

Martin

Adam Sutton

Martin,

Indeed for FTA stuff, like Freesat, its not a bad little board. Personally I still wouldn't buy one, what are they £150, a dual S2 card is £90, leaving £60 to build a machine (I think mine was probably £70) and you've got a much more flexible powerful system. Of course the MOI will probably draw less power, but then if you are recording offline to something else you've already got something somewhere with disks (presumably).

But I think it'll still find its place. In some ways its a real shame they didn't go a bit further, take full advantage of the chip and create a full PVR box (or at least teh option). But that wasn't the market they were aiming at.

Adam