Ron L wrote:
> K Shea wrote:
>
> > THIS is why more people don't do this. Most users are not Linux gurus.....
>
> There is a recommended hardware thread on this forum. There are a whole bunch of devices that you just plug in and work. If anyone had to do extra things to make a certain device work they will state so there. There is also the hardware section on the linux tv wiki. The patches for the Prof 7301, 7500 and other STV0900 devices are listed on the wiki page. There is also a link to Rick's Satellite forum where people will talk you through getting any of this going. You can avoid those and just use the ones that work out of the box. With the right device there is nothing simpler than setting this up in linux.
>
> Devices also have issues in windows. Many only work properly with drivers hacked by CrazyCat. You have to run the machine in test mode to use them. Then they will only work with software that supports that particular card as windows has no DVB API standard. Getting windows going on any lower power ARM or MIPS device is pretty much impossible.
First of all since you mentioned the Prof 7301 and 7500, I will just say that having known someone who purchased a Prof 7301 at one time I would not recommend it for the typical user. I am not talking to the gurus here, I am talking to people like me (and the guy who bought that card) who really don't understand much about Linux. The problem with them is the Prof tuner people haven't updated the drivers in years, and also they apparently never anticipated that anyone would want to run two of their cards in the same system, so their drivers refuse to recognize more than a single card (at least in Windows, which is what he was running). This person purchased a second Prof 7301 card and wound up selling both of them on eBay at a big loss, even though they had only been used for about a month (less in the case of the second one he bought because of the driver issue). A single tuner was way too few for him, and probably would be for most users that are interested in receiving more than one channel. I understand that in Linux there is a different problem with the Prof tuners, something about that they won't receive high-bitrate signals unless some kind of patch is applied (but don't quote me on that, but I believe that's why he was using Windows and not Linux). Also they are older PCI cards, not PCIe cards. In short they are (in computer terms) ancient cards with ancient drivers. I know there are folks who think they are great but again these are the Linux gurus who know how to do all kinds of magic things in Linux that they seem incapable of explaining in such a way that the more simple-minded of us can understand.
As for the other cards in the LinuxTV wiki, most are either not available in the USA and Canada, or if they are they are very expensive compared to TBS cards. Unlike people in other parts of the world many people in the USA are reluctant to order from overseas, in part because if we get a defective unit we really get soaked on return postage.
As for Rick's there are a couple things I don't like about that forum. First you may not be aware that Rick actively -censors- moderates that forum. If you say something he doesn't approve of your post may vanish into thin air, or you may be put on moderation where everything you post sits around for a day or two until he gets around to approving it. This actually happened to someone I've been in contact with; he attributes it to the "ham radio mentality" where amateur radio operators are so used to the government telling them what they can or cannot say on the airwaves (nothing that might be considered commercial traffic, for example) that they see no problem in -censoring- moderating what others say when they run a forum, not realizing (or not caring) that people's expectations for an Internet forum are a lot different than those of ham radio operators for amateur radio BBS's. I don't know if that is the case or not, but beyond that the guys that hang out on Rick's are exactly the type I am talking about that won't or can't seem to explain anything in a simple manner, that someone who knows little about Linux could understand. Those guys are building their own Linux kernels and (sometimes) hacking drivers, but when you read that forum you are often left scratching your head wondering what the hell they are talking about. For anyone who doubts this, the forum in question is at http://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/?forum=106995 - just pick any of the most visited threads (the ones with over 1,000 replies) and if you can follow along in any of those conversations (without skipping over large parts that make no sense at all to you) then you are an advanced Linux user.
While I am glad these guys are willing to push the limits and try to improve upon the drivers and such, it is clear they do this for their own enjoyment and amusement, and occasionally share dribs and drabs of what they discover but only in such a way that other gurus such as themselves can understand, let alone make use of their discoveries. What I really wish is that they would offer one of two things, either a drop-in replacement driver package for the TBS drivers that supports newer tuners such as the TBS6905 as well as the older ones, or an ISO file containing the modded kernels they use with Ubuntu Server (or whatever you'd need to install and run TVHeadEnd. The problem is they are compiling software from source and not many Linux users do that anymore, since the wide availability of distributions such as Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Debian, etc. all have package managers that make that mostly unnecessary. And it's one thing if the compilations are almost always successful (as is generally the case with the standard TBS drivers) and quite another if the compilation fails for some reason and the user is expected to try to figure out why. I don't use Linux because I want to solve puzzles or go on a quest, I use it because when running a server it is the OS that makes my life easiest. For my desktop system I use OS X because I find that easiest to use (although that's sadly becoming less and less true with each new version they release, but that's irrelevant to this discussion).
I don't want it to sound like I'm mad at those guys or that I think they have any obligation to simplify things, but all I am saying is that if you are not the type of person who started using Linux in middle school, but instead used Windows or maybe Apple products most of your life, it's frustrating to know that theremight be better drivers and software out there but you can't use it because no one will post a simple set of steps on how to install and use it. Take the patched kernels as an example, I have read there are many benefits to running those but as far as I can tell no one has posted even the most basic explanation of exactly why they are beneficial and what they do, and how to install them (and I mean cookbook-style steps, not just something like "compile and install" which is meaningless to people who never do this). These guys all have a certain knowledge level and its as if they assume than if you don't have the requisite knowledge then you can probably just get by with the stock operating system and software and be satisfied with that. I don't think they are being mean or malicious or anything, I think maybe they are genuinely incapable of either simplifying what they are doing so the rest of us can understand, or else they just don't get it that not every Linux user is an Einstein.