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i386 builds

Added by dave albright over 6 years ago

will there be i386 builds in the new dl.bintray ubuntu repositories?
I only see amd64 (unless im missing something) so am unable to upgrade from existing 3.9.2827~g477feab~trusty on my 32bit server
thanx
dave


Replies (22)

RE: i386 builds - Added by Dreamcat 4 over 6 years ago

dave albright wrote:

will there be i386 builds in the new dl.bintray ubuntu repositories?
I only see amd64 (unless im missing something) so am unable to upgrade from existing 3.9.2827~g477feab~trusty on my 32bit server
thanx
dave

I've not done them, because it's just a waste of server time. You are asking us to double that. If you have any ~< 10 year old CPU that is at least Core2Duo era (Merom or later). Then that should be fully capable of running a 64-bit linux OS.

And even before Core2Duo came out some people already had 64-bit AMD processors.

We used to generally need to hang onto i386 for several years after that time. Whilst most software libs were still being compiled as i386. But that situation has shifted now and frankly I'm not entirely sure how to deal with the request. Or what is the best policy here.

May I ask: What is your current CPU? Have you tried installing any recent 64-bit OS onto it?

RE: i386 builds - Added by dave albright over 6 years ago

not a problem. not asking you to do it, just wanted to make sure of the situation prior to changing things on my end.
my server is fully capable of 64 bit. just that it was originally setup some years ago as 32bit.
i have been putting off reinstalling everything (ubuntu, LAMP,etc) 64 bit because it has not been necessary.
ill either hunker down and setup a new server or build tvheadend here.
thanx
dave

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro over 6 years ago

Dreamcat 4 wrote:

dave albright wrote:

will there be i386 builds in the new dl.bintray ubuntu repositories?
I only see amd64 (unless im missing something) so am unable to upgrade from existing 3.9.2827~g477feab~trusty on my 32bit server
thanx
dave

I've not done them, because it's just a waste of server time. You are asking us to double that. If you have any ~< 10 year old CPU that is at least Core2Duo era (Merom or later). Then that should be fully capable of running a 64-bit linux OS.

Im using 400mhz celeron without even SSE2 instructions ;)
http://en.iei.com.cn/html/SBC/WAFER-C400E2VN.htm

Intel Embedded Celeron 400 MHz (ULV)
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Celeron/Intel-Ultra%20low%20voltage%20embedded%20Celeron%20400%20MHz%20-%20RJ80530VY400256.html

waste 2 minutes on your c2d for x86 compilations lot of people will be happy

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro over 6 years ago

Is there a place where it is possible to get builds from
https://tvheadend.org/builds/tvheadend

RE: i386 builds - Added by Dreamcat 4 over 6 years ago

Have asked Andreas Oman. For tvheadend project again it seems to be something that Adam Sutton had setup. It would be a good idea ask him about it (Adam Sutton).

RE: i386 builds - Added by A T over 6 years ago

I was also looking for newer buils for 32bit.
Using my old notebook as tvheadend/webserver..

What are thise build logs saen acro posted?

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro over 6 years ago

For those, with are limited to i386 CPUs :(
[[https://www.dropbox.com/s/16yoz1i69uedwej/tvheadend_4.1-198~g81f8235_i386.deb?dl=0]]

Configure arguments:
  --build=i686-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --includedir=${prefix}/include --mandir=${prefix}/share/man --infodir=${prefix}/share/info --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var --disable-silent-rules --libexecdir=${prefix}/lib/tvheadend --disable-maintainer-mode --disable-dependency-tracking

Compiler:
  Using C compiler:                        cc
  Using LD flags:                           -ldvben50221 -ldvbapi -lucsi
  Build for arch:                          i686

Binaries:
  Using PYTHON:                            python
  Using GZIP:                              gzip
  Using BZIP2:                             bzip2

Options:
  cwc                                      yes
  capmt                                    yes
  constcw                                  yes
  linuxdvb                                 yes
  satip_server                             yes
  satip_client                             yes
  hdhomerun_client                         no
  hdhomerun_static                         no
  iptv                                     yes
  tsfile                                   yes
  dvbscan                                  yes
  timeshift                                yes
  trace                                    yes
  imagecache                               yes
  avahi                                    yes
  zlib                                     yes
  libav                                    yes
  libffmpeg_static                         no
  libffmpeg_static_x264                    yes
  inotify                                  yes
  epoll                                    yes
  uriparser                                yes
  ccache                                   no
  tvhcsa                                   yes
  bundle                                   no
  dvbcsa                                   no
  dvben50221                               yes
  kqueue                                   no
  dbus_1                                   yes
  android                                  no
  tsdebug                                  no
  gtimer_check                             no
  execinfo                                 yes
  mmx                                      yes
  sse2                                     yes
  getloadavg                               yes
  atomic64                                 yes
  lockowner                                yes
  qsort_r                                  yes
  stime                                    yes
  recvmmsg                                 yes
  sendmmsg                                 yes
  libdvben50221                            yes
  py_gzip                                  yes
  bin_gzip                                 yes
  bin_bzip2                                yes
  ssl                                      yes
  linuxdvbapi                              yes
  upnp                                     yes
  inotify_h                                yes
  linuxdvb_ca                              yes
  mpegts                                   yes
  mpegts_dvb                               yes

Packages:
  openssl                                  1.0.1f
  zlib                                     1.2.8
  liburiparser                             0.8.0.1
  avahi-client                             0.6.31
  libavcodec                               56.1.0
  libavutil                                54.3.0
  libavformat                              56.1.0
  libswscale                               3.0.0
  libavresample                            2.1.0
  dbus-1                                   1.8.12

Installation paths:
  Prefix:                                  /usr
  Binaries:                                ${prefix}/bin
  Libraries:                               ${prefix}/lib
  Data files:                              ${prefix}/share
  Man pages:                               /usr/share/man

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro over 6 years ago

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6i9i7bswdd2k8v4/tvheadend_4.1.200.tgz?dl=0

Configure arguments:
  --build=i686-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --includedir=${prefix}/include --mandir=${prefix}/share/man --infodir=${prefix}/share/info --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var --disable-silent-rules --libexecdir=${prefix}/lib/tvheadend --disable-maintainer-mode --disable-dependency-tracking

Compiler:
  Using C compiler:                        cc
  Using LD flags:                           -ldvben50221 -ldvbapi -lucsi
  Build for arch:                          i686

Binaries:
  Using PYTHON:                            python
  Using GZIP:                              gzip
  Using BZIP2:                             bzip2

Options:
  cwc                                      yes
  capmt                                    yes
  constcw                                  yes
  linuxdvb                                 yes
  satip_server                             yes
  satip_client                             yes
  hdhomerun_client                         no
  hdhomerun_static                         no
  iptv                                     yes
  tsfile                                   yes
  dvbscan                                  yes
  timeshift                                yes
  trace                                    yes
  imagecache                               yes
  avahi                                    yes
  zlib                                     yes
  libav                                    yes
  libffmpeg_static                         no
  libffmpeg_static_x264                    yes
  inotify                                  yes
  epoll                                    yes
  uriparser                                yes
  ccache                                   no
  tvhcsa                                   yes
  bundle                                   no
  dvbcsa                                   no
  dvben50221                               yes
  kqueue                                   no
  dbus_1                                   yes
  android                                  no
  tsdebug                                  no
  gtimer_check                             no
  execinfo                                 yes
  mmx                                      yes
  sse2                                     yes
  getloadavg                               yes
  atomic64                                 yes
  lockowner                                yes
  qsort_r                                  yes
  stime                                    yes
  recvmmsg                                 yes
  sendmmsg                                 yes
  libdvben50221                            yes
  py_gzip                                  yes
  bin_gzip                                 yes
  bin_bzip2                                yes
  ssl                                      yes
  linuxdvbapi                              yes
  upnp                                     yes
  inotify_h                                yes
  linuxdvb_ca                              yes
  mpegts                                   yes
  mpegts_dvb                               yes

Packages:
  openssl                                  1.0.1f
  zlib                                     1.2.8
  liburiparser                             0.8.0.1
  avahi-client                             0.6.31
  libavcodec                               56.1.0
  libavutil                                54.3.0
  libavformat                              56.1.0
  libswscale                               3.0.0
  libavresample                            2.1.0
  dbus-1                                   1.8.12

Installation paths:
  Prefix:                                  /usr
  Binaries:                                ${prefix}/bin
  Libraries:                               ${prefix}/lib
  Data files:                              ${prefix}/share
  Man pages:                               /usr/share/man

RE: i386 builds - Added by A T over 6 years ago

Thx. With your config arguments i can compile it myself following https://tvheadend.org/projects/tvheadend/wiki/Building

Im not sure how upgrading works. ATM i just started it from the build directory, can i just delete and clone/compile again?

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro over 6 years ago

short tutorial

cd /opt
git clone https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend.git

//furst time no needed next//
this will create "tvheadend" folder

//Use "git pull" from tvheadend folder
this will update from github no extra commands
each time when compile next version//

[email protected]:/opt/tvheadend$ git pull
remote: Counting objects: 4, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (4/4), done.
remote: Total 4 (delta 3), reused 1 (delta 0), pack-reused 0
Разпакетиране на обектите: 100% (4/4), действието завърши.
От https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend
   f0cb852..ade6638  master     -> origin/master
Обновяване „f0cb852..ade6638“
Fast-forward
 src/profile.c | 5 ++++-
 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
[email protected]:/opt/tvheadend$ ./Autobuild.sh

---- few hundreds lines of compilation ;) ---
similar to this http://pam.lonelycoder.com/file/4de68ab58c6a88e153169d05a3eb9dea2d0c4a79

doozer-versioned-artifact:/opt/tvheadend/../tvheadend_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.deb:deb:application/x-deb:tvheadend_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.deb
doozer-versioned-artifact:/opt/tvheadend/../tvheadend-dbg_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.deb:deb:application/x-deb:tvheadend-dbg_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.deb
doozer-versioned-artifact:/opt/tvheadend/../tvheadend_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.changes:changes:text/plain:tvheadend_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.changes


finally in /opt
 [email protected]:/opt$ ls -al
....
drwxrwxr-x 15 saen saen    4096 юни 13 19:04 tvheadend
-rw-rw-r--  1 saen saen    1152 юни 14 20:55 tvheadend_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.changes
-rw-r--r--  1 saen saen 3817524 юни 14 20:55 tvheadend_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.deb
-rw-r--r--  1 saen saen 1326054 юни 14 20:55 tvheadend-dbg_4.1-201~gade6638_i386.deb

RE: i386 builds - Added by Jac Gl over 6 years ago

Hi,
I am dissapointed as well. I found something like this:
"Motovation
This new build system was created in general to get reliable 'stable' daily builds of tvheadend for ubuntu for all people. Having said that, the dockerhub build farm has only intel machines. Therefore it can only produce x86 .deb files. And the build scripts are only making 64-bit of type x86_64. As I don't really expect that there are enough people still requiring i386 for 32-bit to be worth making anymore."
Hmmm... isn't it good idea to utilize old PC as TV server, without display/keyboard/mouse? I have the one with Pentium4, 3 DVB-T cards and DVB-S2 card, and to be honest there is no need to have better cpu. Tvheadend takes maybe 10-20% of proc time.
In my opinion, majority of people are just the users, they are not interested in compiling, manually upgrading and all that staff, no time, no knowledge, they just want to have fun watching TV and recording. Update to new version? -mainly using Ubuntu GUI. So, with this approach you loose lot of "clients".
Personally, I can build the newer version from time to time, anyway red light is on. Even if tvheadend would be the best frontend, I am not ready to configure everything from scratch on new machine. Too much work with DVB-S channels.....
Regards.

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro over 6 years ago

+1
am using 400mhz celeron with 128mb ram
but https://tvheadend.org/users/6053
philosophy is far away from reality
soon will upload latest i386 deb's

RE: i386 builds - Added by Dreamcat 4 over 6 years ago

Jac Gl wrote:

Hi,
I am dissapointed as well. I found something like this:

This new build system was created in general to get reliable 'stable' daily builds of tvheadend for ubuntu for all people. Having said that, the dockerhub build farm has only intel

Sure that's wrong. I should correct that to say 'most people', or 'a stable public builds' instead of 'all people'. Because not all hardware can be supported. Only the most common ones.

Jac Gl wrote:

machines. Therefore it can only produce x86 .deb files. And the build scripts are only making 64-bit of type x86_64. As I don't really expect that there are enough people still requiring i386 for 32-bit to be worth making anymore."
Hmmm... isn't it good idea to utilize old PC as TV server, without display/keyboard/mouse? I have the one with Pentium4, 3 DVB-T cards and DVB-S2 card, and to be honest there is no need to have better cpu. Tvheadend takes maybe 10-20% of proc time.
Regards.

Yes you are correct in that philosophy, however except that in environmental terms specifically the idle power consumption of the Pentium4 CPU isn't a terribly good match if it's idle TDP is so high (including ATX psu and other attached components), when based on such old process technology.

My main point about cutting the line at i386 is because before the era of Core2Duo architecture, most CPUs such as P4 were not anywhere near as power effecicient. And hence it makes a good place to say: well how many years of support (from 2015 onward) to you expect? Can you put a number on that in years,months ?

Saen Acro has a ULV BGA part which is very low and reasonable TDP - so in his specific case it's a pretty good match for use as Tvheadend. Which is a good example of where an i386 build is justified. Yet expect the total number of active systems purchased with Core2Duo part during those era dwarfs such (most likely ULV laptop).

So that's all good justification to hear. Yet the practical side is different. The system just cannot build every possible architecture because there are not unlimited resources.

These builds are done on public machines. Therefore i386 builds are not made to avoid jeopardizing other more important builds going on at the same time when the system becomes overloaded.

e.g. 3 users << 100 users
The numbers just don't add up.

  • We need to put priority ahead for ARM builds - because that is more users.
  • We need to put priority ahead for RPM builds - same reason (*x64 only RPM)

This is a conservative approach. Whereby we act in a responsible fashion and cannot afford to build everything, else risk failed builds.

For example, my inbox this morning:

Hi Dreamcat4,

There seems to have been an issue with your Automated Build "dreamcat4/dpi" (VCS repository: dreamcat4/dpi) during the build step.
You can find more information on
https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/dreamcat4/dpi/build_id/61282/code/bw38stba8sny4k5bjx7erhu/

... that's just the current situation with only 64-bits build. Master didn't get updated last night due to over-use of builds farm.

We continue to monitor this. It might be in future that:

  • Docker Builds farm gets upgraded, there becomes more resources.
  • Docker Builds farm gets more popular, there becomes less resources.

We cannot predict the future situation with Docker Hub... it is something entirely out of our control.

What about other servers?

Launchpad.net

  • Native git hosting will be upgraded in 'unknown months time'. The people working on it have not set any schedule whatsoever.
  • Until then no tvheadend PPA can be build on launchpad.net due to bzr launchpad bug regarding git submodules (bzr git import fails).
  • I have not got any time allocated to make a brand new launchpad auto-builds. It might have to be somebody else to do it.

I hope that clarifies the situation for you guys in terms of why i386 builds are not being made. There was no official policy decision. Given unlimited resources we would have tried to make as many other (lower demanded) build as possible.

So it is a very good thing that Saen Acro is making here community i386 builds and sharing them publically. I support that effort, (just like Nihil who make rpi ARM build himself currently). It is a community effort.

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro over 6 years ago

Dreamcat 4 you logic is completely wrong
if some one have P4 or more old system
/have friend wit mobo with P2 and ISA slots/
renovation of this is costly non-effective next 3 years energy lost scenario /if they survived ;) /
renovation from i386 to new will be to some AIO aka TBS MOI for up to 8 tuners.
Energy save is effective only if invest in solar roof ;(

RE: i386 builds - Added by Dreamcat 4 over 6 years ago

Saen Acro - perhaps that specific reason given isn't the best. But there are other very good reason why a higher TDP system is not so pleasant for such server: noise & thermals.

Another point for this guy above with ^^ P4 he might be able to upgrade his mono with a 64-bit CPU. That is relatively simple (and cheap) thing to get on ebay. It depends entirely his mobo + socket. That is just speculation but it's something relatively easy to find out / look into. Sorry I forgot to mention earlier.

But running tvheadend isn't the only benefit provided by 64-bit CPU. There are many other software that are or will be 64-bit only in future. You cannot expect i386 to be supported for eternity. The general support (all softwares) for the i386 platform will only decrease in future. It will not increase. So moving off i386 isn't a bad idea. It is another sound logic.

Certainly that has been the case with us:

We had 2 PC with socket 'M' and 32-bit CPU. We upgraded them both of them to Core2Duo. Our software architecture problems all solved. The cost was only $10 USD (each) on ebay. That is not expensive.

It seems you are just unlucky yourself as having a BGA part it cannot be swapped / upgraded. Such things are not really in my control. Neither is the server load on a public build farm.

RE: i386 builds - Added by Jac Gl over 6 years ago

@Dreamcat 4
Hi,
You definitely do not understand the main factor here: it is time.
It really doesn't matter how much of power cpu consumes, the machine is dedicated for TV server and is ON only when required. When nobody is logged, script performs shutdown, and can be awaken remotely by WoL. No benefit on 64bit machine.
On the other hand, what can be important is the number of PCI slots. I know, your answer is "change all the hardware, tv cards are cheap". But new hardware, new issues, next hours spent on the same things. Golden rule -if something is stable, do not touch.
Your opinion is probably that every linux user should be able to compile and install from sources. In fact, this is the main reason why Windows is common system, and this one is installed on new PC, not linux.
For example, today's compilation gives me the result: "This package is uninstallable. A later version is already installed". And this is 4.1.289 vs. 4.1.244. funny? easy? I do not think so.
Even if I appreciate your hard work, I can not agree that this is good way of development.
I want to present you my point of view: no support for old machines, less tvheadend users.
Regards.

RE: i386 builds - Added by Dreamcat 4 over 6 years ago

Jac Gl wrote:

On the other hand, what can be important is the number of PCI slots. I know, your answer is "change all the hardware, tv cards are cheap". But new hardware, new issues, next hours spent

Nope. My recommendation was "see if you can change only the CPU" (for a really cheap one). It depends whether that kind of upgrade is supported by your specific motherboard, you haven't disclosed. But clearly that would be a reasonable option for your situation to try and be keeping the same mobo, including enough PCI slots for your tuners.

For example, today's compilation gives me the result: "This package is uninstallable. A

My recommendation was to use Sean Acro's recent i386 builds for the time being. Since he has been good enough to share them here. If you still get that error then maybe it's just an apt issue.

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro over 6 years ago

tvheadend_4.1-322 for x86 /i386 i486 i686/ 32 bit processors AMD VIA Transmeta Intel
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nd2y62yjshh8fl/tvheadend_4.1-322~g55efd0f_i386.tgz?dl=0

RE: i386 builds - Added by -- J876 -- over 6 years ago

If i386 is not supported anymore in the Ubuntu repositories can someone please but some guides on how to compile (and update)
TVHeadend for the i386 from the source code?

RE: i386 builds - Added by saen acro about 6 years ago

Fresh i386/x86 version
https://www.dropbox.com/s/byvyrlyyorahfai/tvh_4.1-451.tgz?dl=0

Can someone pin this topic as important?

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