Project

General

Profile

Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams?

Added by nin dustries over 7 years ago

So i currently have a synology NAS.
Id like to watch Sat tv (dvb-s2,tv vlaanderen), on 4 tuners.

Could I use a sat>ip server like the Triax tss400, send everything to my oscam on synology and serve my decrypted channels from there?

Thanks


Replies (28)

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 7 years ago

This is possible and I do have this Kind of setup running on my ReadyNAS. It currently works only with CWC, but that should be enough for your needs.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by nin dustries over 7 years ago

Aha, good to hear! Are you happy running this setup? What about the delays?

Triax support told me that 'it only supports FTA channels', not sure if they mean the triax still sends encrypted ones or not..

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 7 years ago

Everything depends on a fast network. You should not go for less than a Gigabit LAN, at least between the receiver and the tvheadend server. Viewer devices may use slower connections such as Wifi or PowerLan.

It works pretty solid, picture quality is good and channel switching is very fast (with OctopusNet, depends on the receiver).

The TRIAX isn't capable of doing the decryption part on it's own, so the support has answered the question correctly from their perspective. BUT: thats where tvheadend and oscam come into play.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by nin dustries over 7 years ago

Super! Thanks so much for your response, it was quite hard to find ANYONE who had any experience with this.
The OctopusNet Quad DVB-S2 is quite pricey tough, 430EU :o The Triax is only 200EU.
Guess I can still return it if it doesn't work the way I want it to.

Gigabit ethernet ofcourse, one line should be enough to get all 4 streams across.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 7 years ago

Yes one line is enough, if you don’t stream the full mux. I have seen 45 MB/s for a full mux over DVB-C. Dunno if it is a DVB-C issue though.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Polar . over 7 years ago

Just had a conversation with the Norwegian reseller for MegaSat. He still hasn't come around to testing the MegaSat SAT>IP server, but according to him the problem is that the server expects a client that runs the same protocol as the server. The two need to be able to communicate with each other. Be it a SAT>IP hardware client, or an app for iPad or Android (don't remember if there is a client for Windows/Mac ?). And the hardware must be SES approved before it even can be called "compatible".

So basically, taking in DVB-S2 with the SAT>IP server, having Oscam do the decryption, then send the decrypted signal on to the TVheadend platform would be theoretically impossible. Or from the SAT>IP server to TVheadend, then to oscam and so on (not sure what the correct way is to follow).

Any way, wouldn't you achieve the same without SAT>IP just by setting up a server with one or more tuner cards? Let Oscam have a go at it, then distribute over Plex or any other Plex client to serv both Smart-devices (TV or BD-players with Plex client), or iPad and Android devices with Plex clients. Or straight to the PC, where you can use the web based viewer... ?

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 7 years ago

Sure you don't Need SAT>IP for that, but you can't use those normal tuners in a virtual machine (without a hassle) or on every NAS out there that can run tvheadend. SAT>IP does not need drivers and is very well done because it basically uses well known streaming Technologies.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Polar . over 7 years ago

Hendrik Spohr Noack: True, in my case I was not planning on setting up a VM for my new N54L server. I will need to investigate what OS to use if I am going to set up a single server to run both TVheadend with tuners + plex ++. And that OS will most likely be either Linux or a NAS system.

But it still doesn't solve the question about the decryption. According to MegaSat the problem is the decryption, and the lack of the required SAT>IP client running the correct SAT>IP client protocol. The way he put it, the SAT>IP system is a genius solution for FTA channels. But like in my case where I am using 2 CI's (occasionally more) no SAT>IP server is going to support that (for now).

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 7 years ago

SAT>IP and normal DVB-somewhat doesn't make a difference in transporting multiplexes. SAT>IP just uses a different medium (RTSP stream over IP and not DVB). The content is the same, so SAT>IP does definitely Transport encrypted streams. The problem currently is: how do you decrypt the channels you subscribed to. For buyers of the OctopusNet there is an easy, yet not a SAT>IP standardized way, to decrypt channels: it has a standard CI slot. Insert a CAM and your provider's smart card and you can watch pay TV. The caveat is, that this CI cannot do Multi Transponder decryption, so it is bound to a tuner and to one stream. Here is where tvheadend and oscam come into Play. TVH starts the stream from the SAT>IP tuner and then uses the code word Client to decrypt the channels on the fly. CWC uses oscam with a Standard USB Card Reader like the Omnikey 3121 USB, equipped with your Providers smart Card. This solution is not limited to one mux and works with any tuner that can supply a multiplex to tvheadend.

The truth is, you cannot use a SAT>IP Client (OctopusNet is the exception here) to watch pay tv, but any tvheadend compatible Client can do, and there are plenty of them out there for all kinds of operating Systems.

I am using this exact configuration (tvh + oscam + omnikey + OctopusNet) on a NAS and it just works.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Polar . over 7 years ago

Hendrik Spohr Noack: You wrote "Sure you don't Need SAT>IP for that, but you can't use those normal tuners in a virtual machine (without a hassle) or on every NAS out there that can run tvheadend. "

Ahaaa... so you are saying, the interesting part is that you can run the entire setup from a VM? Because with SAT>IP the DVB-S/S2 tuner cards are provided by the SAT>IP server, and in that case you don't need any in your TVheadend?

When choosing an SAT>IP server, it can be one without a CI, because it won't be used anyway? Because we are using the USB card reader (like Smargo) on our own server? Good I have a separate Oscam server (old Pentium4) since my VMware ESX 4.1 does not support pass-through.

What about the limitation on the number of simultaneous connected devices/viewers. Like here at home we have 1 TV, 2 iPads, 2 Android tablets, 3 Android phones and 4 PC's.

Another question is how my LNB setup needs to be. Currently I have 1 LNBF on 0.8W + 19E + 23E. One coax cable leaves the LNBF to the diseqc . One coax cable from the diseqc to the tuner. Is it correct to assume that I will be needing a Quad LNB on all three of the satellites? But then again, a SAT>IP only has 4 coax connectors... I'm confused...

I was informed that in normal Headend systems every tuner required its own CA, and thus multiple subscriber cards on the same provider. And if I am not mistaking only one transponder per tuner. How does this add up in a scenario using TVH and oscam?

Lots of questions, sorry for that. SAT>IP encryption is a brand new concept for me, so I just need to ask before I start buying my equipment.

Edit: To keep it simple: I think what my am uncertain about is this: Let's say I have only one LNBF (with 1 coax cable) on 19E. Can multiple users at home have access to ALL transponders on 19E and watch different channels simultaneously, regardless of what transponder they are on (iow, no limitations) by feeding the coax into tuner 1 of the SAT>IP server, or do I need 1 tuner per transponder, or 1 tuner per viewer?

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 7 years ago

Correct, you can build a virtual TVH Server without a physical tuner being present.

With TVH you definitely don't need a CI slot. Oscam with one card reader can support multiple tuners and muxes.

From what I can tell, my old ReadyNAS Ultra 4 (x86 Atom based) can serve a few Clients, but the hardware does not allow for any video or audio transformation.

Quad or Quattro LNB? A quad LNB can serve four tuners, a Quattro LNB however needs a multi switch and that switch can serve a bunch of tuners. You can have more than one SAT>IP box in your network.

To answer your last addition: if you only supply a signal to one tuner, all users can watch the same transponder, but you need multiple tuners to watch multiple transponders. The more tuners you have, the more different transponders can be selected by different users.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Gno Ffer over 7 years ago

Hi all,

i am running Ubuntu 14.04 with Tvheadend 3.9.769~g0ebca1b~trusty.
How can i add my tss400 into tvheadend? i can not find any information about it.

would be nice to get help here...

brgds
tom

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 7 years ago

Can you create a log file of your tvheadend Startup Phase?

./tvheadend --trace upnp,udp,httpc,satip -l /tmp/tvheadend.log

UDP Port 1900 for UPNP is used to detect the Tuners on the Network. Do you have a Firewall running? If so, can you disable it for a test?

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Gno Ffer over 7 years ago

Hi Hendrik,

thanks for the reply.
The Firewall is disabled and attached you can find the log-file.
Beginning at line 131 it found the device (192.168.22.38 / TSS400 Beta-Firmware 0.5.10)

Where should i recongnize the device in TVHeadend?
What are the steps to complete the configuration?

thanks and brgds
tom

Firewall:
***@sat:/home/hts$ sudo iptables -L -n
Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target prot opt source destination

Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT)
target prot opt source destination

Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target prot opt source destination

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Gno Ffer over 7 years ago

now, the tuner has been found. i dont know why - but i am happy.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 7 years ago

Glad to hear that it works for you. There is a discussion on github regarding tss400 Support in tvheadend.

https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend/pull/392

Maybe this helps for other questions that may arise.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by over drive about 5 years ago

Does anyone know an app which shows encrypted channels?
for example Elgato Sat>IP app, when i use TVH with oscam and provide the network over SATIP, the app find all the decrypted channels during the channel search but didn`t show the channels after the search in the channel list.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Matteo Zara over 4 years ago

Hendrik Noack wrote:

The truth is, you cannot use a SAT>IP Client (OctopusNet is the exception here) to watch >pay tv, but any tvheadend compatible Client can do, and there are plenty of them out there >for all kinds of operating Systems.

Sorry, I'm a noob, why not ? On mac os there is a very good software, EyeTV, for viewing live tv, but it lacks the ability to descramble the channels, due of the lack of supported hardware/code for the subscriber smartcard. Anyway, EyeTv is a also a certified Sat>ip client, so it could accept the stream from TVH. Could it work, that's is takle advantage of TVH, oscam and a usb card reader, decode and send to the eyetv client, may be feeding TVH from a digibit R1 input ?

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 4 years ago

Matteo Zara wrote:

Hendrik Noack wrote:

The truth is, you cannot use a SAT>IP Client (OctopusNet is the exception here) to watch >pay tv, but any tvheadend compatible Client can do, and there are plenty of them out there >for all kinds of operating Systems.

Sorry, I'm a noob, why not ? On mac os there is a very good software, EyeTV, for viewing live tv, but it lacks the ability to descramble the channels, due of the lack of supported hardware/code for the subscriber smartcard. Anyway, EyeTv is a also a certified Sat>ip client, so it could accept the stream from TVH. Could it work, that's is takle advantage of TVH, oscam and a usb card reader, decode and send to the eyetv client, may be feeding TVH from a digibit R1 input ?

Hi Matteo,

look at the time I wrote my comment. Three years have passed since then and tvheadend has evolved. It can now host it's own SAT>IP server. That was not the case at the time I wrote my comment and started to use SAT>IP. You are absolutely right, if you still have a pay tv provider that can be descrambled using oscam, you can feed that stream via SAT>IP to tvheadend, get it decrypted and resent via TVH SAT>IP.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by nin dustries over 4 years ago

To add up to to this, I've given up the idea of this in Belgium.
Almost all providers (sat + cable) have switched to CI+ , which makes it impossible for us to decode.
Only provider I can think of is Belgacom TV, which offers pure IPTV to their proprietary decoder boxes. Perhaps with some MAC spoofing...

Belgium needs an open standard and/or more providers. :(

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Matteo Zara over 4 years ago

Hi Hendrik and nin,

thanks, especially for the parts:

if you still have a pay tv provider that can be descrambled using oscam

and

Almost all providers (sat + cable) have switched to CI+ , which makes it impossible for us to decode.

Thats is, if my provider Tivusat (Italy), that is free but requires a smartcard, used a CI+ smart card, descrambling is impossibile with TVH/Oscam ?

Thanks

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by nin dustries over 4 years ago

Hello Matteo,

Indeed, Oscam can only decrypt streams decoded with a CI card, not CI+.

Regards

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Hendrik Noack over 4 years ago

Not entirely true. It does not depend on whether your provider uses a CI+ or CI module, it depends on how the encryption works nowadays and if you provider uses features that oscam does not understand, like pairing for example. I'm currently using a CI module + OctopusNET to decrypt PayTV. Not as comfortable as oscam, but it works for me.

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by saen acro over 4 years ago

TSDecrypt can do stream decryption
tivùsat card can be read in oscam

CI and CI+ communication are very different first decrypt ECM,
second read stream as independent STB

RE: Can Sat>IP send encrypted streams? - Added by Tom Leeson about 4 years ago

Hi Hendrik Noack

Hendrik Noack wrote:

I'm currently using a CI module + OctopusNET to decrypt PayTV. Not as comfortable as oscam, but it works for me.

Which OctopusNET device are you using and how easy is it to accomplish in tvheadend? I've managed FTA channel integration from OctopusNET but now want to try using the CI module native to OctopusNET. Support at DD have been unable to provide me with much info further than the CI module is tied to a single stream in the OctopusNET device.

Thanks!

(1-25/28)